What would it take to live in harmony? Perhaps first defining “harmony” would offer guidance. Is it Love? Lack of judgment of others? Or, in a positive sense, Acceptance? That we are all one “tribe?” J Krishnamurti often argues for immediacy, devoid of history, thinking, an “empty” mind. He recently argued that meditation only occurs with a silent presence of the mind. Would everyone need to be in that form of meditation to set the stage for harmony? Great challenge to my assumptions and aspects of life not questioned.
Sarah offered an intention of “play” for today’s yoga practice. Why didn’t I think of that?! Play over seriousness?
Somebody shared a great example of harmony compared to balance with me this week. A forest is harmonious. Versailles Gardens are balanced. The gardens are a product of control and human intervention? Are we a part of nature? Is creativity part of our nature? 🤷♀️
Harmony certainly calls the idea of equality into question? What in nature is equal?
Is harmony Love? I’m not sure. Seems like it might be. There is a rich vein of connection between all things and many of us cannot see this?
From what I’ve read of K, yes, everyone would need that form of meditation...which is not silence, but rather presence.
Can presence exist without the silence (of thought)? Unfiltered "what is"? Was it K, Buber, maybe Heschel who referenced "humanity as G_d's meditation on itself". Is this "one" as the observer being the observed?
So from K (and you) I understand that trying to sit in silence is not meditation--it is the observer trying to control the observed. According to K, presence is full attention to the moment? This happens when we are in a flow state?
Yes, and, yet calling it a "flow state" could limit the possibility of meditation as living/life. I am so ignorant about all this but the it seems so real to me that thought (in each of our particular selves) separates each of us from each other. As far as it goes this appears to be part of the grand design. Can the inquiry into "harmony" or it's absence get answered in the realm of our particular?
This all places me in the "harmony is where I "see it" rather than when I "know it" spot.
Okay...yes, and.... flow state for me has been a gateway into greater/more frequent presence—yoga, writing, garden—and during those activities I still have thoughts. In those spaces I mostly am in a state of observing myself and thinking about how I might improve myself to bring about the best in my environment. Often, I see silence and attentive listening as the best route.
We might be experiencing the same, and yet putting different language to it?
Here’s the thing...we are all different. This conversation we are having...there are very few people I see who have interest in it in its current theoretical form. Most of us have to experience to understand?
Well, first of all. Thank you for continuing the conversation. I just came back from a walk/bike ride on the Canal (Erie) Path. The highlight was a teenager walking his pet pig. It kind of made the day for me.
In trying to unpack.....
"In those spaces I mostly am in a state of observing myself and thinking about how I might improve myself to bring about the best in my environment. Often, I see silence and attentive listening as the best route."
What, I believe K was saying is that the "intention" to "become" distorts one from simply "being". There may very well be a feel good or benefit to these windows of flow. And, assuredly silence, listening and I might add observing with all of one's senses are tools in the observer/observed "what is" toolkit. Can one live utilizing the tools yet let go of the intention to become?
As for your last paragraph this is there are two aspects that beg for my own perspective.
The first "are very few people I see who have an interest". There is to me a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in this. What would change if you believed ( as I do) that every human being is desperately seeking a theoretical basis for how to make sense and meaning and lead their lives? The second "nitpicker' aspect is to think this is theory rather than foundational real, practical, pragmatic, immediate, to life.
Yes, I read the piece from Aeon about Blake that you reference. Lots to chew on. These jump out for me:
"Eternity’s secret weapon is a new type of friendship, which Blake captures in a line from The Marriage of Heaven and Hell: ‘Opposition is true Friendship’. Moreover, the opposing friend opposes themselves as well. They embrace what Blake called ‘Self-Annihilation’: the mental fight with oneself, which isn’t about dissolving the ego but routing the desire to possess life and control others."
And:
"But in Eternity, freedom is found in service and in submission – a meaning that is also embedded in the Sanskrit origins of ‘yoga’: to join or yoke. This is because when relinquishing is perceived as the wellspring of life’s everlasting waters, people strive to embody the dynamic by aligning with it. Blake sang of this bliss in the quatrain that can take a lifetime to realise:
He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy
He who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity’s sunrise.
There is a further type of relinquishing required to live in eternity’s sunrise."
Where I keep landing in my own musings on harmony is that it is only possible when there is "freedom from choice".
First quote....I followed the link within the article to another about Buber. The opposition Blake speaks of can occur “conflict free” if we move from I-It to I-Thou?
“Freedom from choice”......I know there have been glimmers whet I understood what you meant by this. Why does it fail to stick? 🤷♀️
What would it take to live in harmony? Perhaps first defining “harmony” would offer guidance. Is it Love? Lack of judgment of others? Or, in a positive sense, Acceptance? That we are all one “tribe?” J Krishnamurti often argues for immediacy, devoid of history, thinking, an “empty” mind. He recently argued that meditation only occurs with a silent presence of the mind. Would everyone need to be in that form of meditation to set the stage for harmony? Great challenge to my assumptions and aspects of life not questioned.
Look what I found... https://link.medium.com/uhpn6CMox9
I am fascinated that I can go back and learn from....myself.😂
Sarah offered an intention of “play” for today’s yoga practice. Why didn’t I think of that?! Play over seriousness?
Somebody shared a great example of harmony compared to balance with me this week. A forest is harmonious. Versailles Gardens are balanced. The gardens are a product of control and human intervention? Are we a part of nature? Is creativity part of our nature? 🤷♀️
Harmony certainly calls the idea of equality into question? What in nature is equal?
Is harmony Love? I’m not sure. Seems like it might be. There is a rich vein of connection between all things and many of us cannot see this?
From what I’ve read of K, yes, everyone would need that form of meditation...which is not silence, but rather presence.
Rich discussion. Thank you!
Can presence exist without the silence (of thought)? Unfiltered "what is"? Was it K, Buber, maybe Heschel who referenced "humanity as G_d's meditation on itself". Is this "one" as the observer being the observed?
So from K (and you) I understand that trying to sit in silence is not meditation--it is the observer trying to control the observed. According to K, presence is full attention to the moment? This happens when we are in a flow state?
Yes, and, yet calling it a "flow state" could limit the possibility of meditation as living/life. I am so ignorant about all this but the it seems so real to me that thought (in each of our particular selves) separates each of us from each other. As far as it goes this appears to be part of the grand design. Can the inquiry into "harmony" or it's absence get answered in the realm of our particular?
This all places me in the "harmony is where I "see it" rather than when I "know it" spot.
Okay...yes, and.... flow state for me has been a gateway into greater/more frequent presence—yoga, writing, garden—and during those activities I still have thoughts. In those spaces I mostly am in a state of observing myself and thinking about how I might improve myself to bring about the best in my environment. Often, I see silence and attentive listening as the best route.
We might be experiencing the same, and yet putting different language to it?
Here’s the thing...we are all different. This conversation we are having...there are very few people I see who have interest in it in its current theoretical form. Most of us have to experience to understand?
Well, first of all. Thank you for continuing the conversation. I just came back from a walk/bike ride on the Canal (Erie) Path. The highlight was a teenager walking his pet pig. It kind of made the day for me.
In trying to unpack.....
"In those spaces I mostly am in a state of observing myself and thinking about how I might improve myself to bring about the best in my environment. Often, I see silence and attentive listening as the best route."
What, I believe K was saying is that the "intention" to "become" distorts one from simply "being". There may very well be a feel good or benefit to these windows of flow. And, assuredly silence, listening and I might add observing with all of one's senses are tools in the observer/observed "what is" toolkit. Can one live utilizing the tools yet let go of the intention to become?
As for your last paragraph this is there are two aspects that beg for my own perspective.
The first "are very few people I see who have an interest". There is to me a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy in this. What would change if you believed ( as I do) that every human being is desperately seeking a theoretical basis for how to make sense and meaning and lead their lives? The second "nitpicker' aspect is to think this is theory rather than foundational real, practical, pragmatic, immediate, to life.
Choices by their very nature are evidence of conflict. Can there be harmony where choice exists? K?
Thayer: All human conflicts can be reduced to the struggle over whose realities will prevail.
Have you read this: https://aeon.co/essays/what-we-can-learn-from-william-blakes-visionary-imagination
It reminded me of an early discussion we shared about the inability to solve problems in the same dimension they were created. Einstein, right?
Are we currently in the “messy middle” of transition?
And...I see we are back to the place where I continue to stumble and wrestle—choice. I have no clarity in that dimension today.😂
Yes, I read the piece from Aeon about Blake that you reference. Lots to chew on. These jump out for me:
"Eternity’s secret weapon is a new type of friendship, which Blake captures in a line from The Marriage of Heaven and Hell: ‘Opposition is true Friendship’. Moreover, the opposing friend opposes themselves as well. They embrace what Blake called ‘Self-Annihilation’: the mental fight with oneself, which isn’t about dissolving the ego but routing the desire to possess life and control others."
And:
"But in Eternity, freedom is found in service and in submission – a meaning that is also embedded in the Sanskrit origins of ‘yoga’: to join or yoke. This is because when relinquishing is perceived as the wellspring of life’s everlasting waters, people strive to embody the dynamic by aligning with it. Blake sang of this bliss in the quatrain that can take a lifetime to realise:
He who binds to himself a joy
Does the winged life destroy
He who kisses the joy as it flies
Lives in eternity’s sunrise.
There is a further type of relinquishing required to live in eternity’s sunrise."
Where I keep landing in my own musings on harmony is that it is only possible when there is "freedom from choice".
So much in here!
First quote....I followed the link within the article to another about Buber. The opposition Blake speaks of can occur “conflict free” if we move from I-It to I-Thou?
“Freedom from choice”......I know there have been glimmers whet I understood what you meant by this. Why does it fail to stick? 🤷♀️
Your choice!